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Offroad Poland

Here are the edited version of posts made to our Polish and Poland forum. The views expressed in this archive are those of the individual authors and not the Poland Poland website. If you would like to respond to any of the debates and discussions please do so on the Polish and Poland Forum.

Original forum thread link: 4x4 / 4WD / SUV / OFFROAD POLAND

Related Offsite Link: Land Rover Klub Polska


Comment on 4WD cars and Off Road Poland

Leave a comment on Offroading and 4x4 vehicles.


John

Raleigh, NC


Dec 29, 05 - 2:50 AM
4x4 / 4WD / SUV / OFFROAD POLAND

I'm thinking about relocating to Poland and was hoping I could continue with my hobby of owning and driving 4x4 cars offroad. Can anyone tell me anything about 4x4 Offroading in Poland? What 4wd cars are available used. Do many people own SUVs? What kind of offroad tracks (forests, etc) can you find in Poland. Are there any 4x4 clubs in Poland? Couldn't find anything much on the net.
dajwid



Dec 29th, 2005 - 10:58 AM
Re: 4x4 / 4WD / SUV / OFFROAD POLAND

Off roading is big in Poland, nost people tend to use GAS or Uaz cars as they are cheap and really basic 'both are russian or Polish I think'. Small suzukis are the next choice they are cheap and pretty tough. Then the rich guys stick to anything Japanese, Nisan being very popular. I found the off road comunity to be rather close knit not like in the UK open to everyone. There are hundreds of clubs but to search you will need polish. I can search for a few links I will get back to you.

As for tracks they are everwhere!!!

Norman

Cambridge


Dec 29th, 2005 - 11:08 AM
Re: 4x4 / 4WD / SUV / OFFROAD POLAND

Are you allowed to drive cars through the forest in Poland? When I was there last I saw lots of great dirt tracks but my Polish guide said for non forestry cars it was forbidden to use them.
John

Raleigh, NC


Dec 29th, 2005 - 10:31 PM
Re: 4x4 / 4WD / SUV / OFFROAD POLAND

Thanks for information, Dajwid. It'd be great to get more .

What are the most popular offroad cars in Poland? Are there many real offroaders like Jeep or Land Rover on the roads?
Cliff

USA


Dec 30th, 2005 - 12:58 AM
Re: 4x4 / 4WD / SUV / OFFROAD POLAND

Can people afford luxury cars like Land Rovers and Jeeps in Poland and the gas needed to keep them running
varsovian



Dec 30th, 2005 - 12:00 PM
Re: 4x4 / 4WD / SUV / OFFROAD POLAND

Cliff,
Some people in Poland are actually rich ...
A well-off friend of mine had American relations over for the first time in 40 years and they were shocked at coming to an affluent suburb of Warsaw. Of course, there is also great poverty here too - just like you've got your trailer parks and your black refugees in the US.
Simon

Poland


Dec 30th, 2005 - 12:07 PM
Re: 4x4 / 4WD / SUV / OFFROAD POLAND

Well said, varsovian! I was just going to say pretty much the same thing . It's true that the majority of Poles may not be too well off by western standards, but there are still plenty of Poles rich enough to afford an expensive SUV / 4WD car; a nice detached house; vacations abroad and a luxurious lifestyle. Come to Poland and see for yourself.
Simon

Poland


Dec 30th, 2005 - 12:24 PM
Re: 4x4 / 4WD / SUV / OFFROAD POLAND

On the subject of 4WD/4x4 cars, have a look at this article about a new Chinese made SUV !!!

Chinese 4x4 gets zero in safety test
varsovian



Dec 30th, 2005 - 1:53 PM
Re: 4x4 / 4WD / SUV / OFFROAD POLAND

BTW Si, did you know that 10 days is the usual holiday entitlement given in the States and average income is $31 000.
As a result, Americans don't have an annual summer holiday with the kids. Generally, they spread their holidays out across the year in a series of long weekends spent watching TV and nursing hangovers.
Instead of a life, they have work and gadgets.
dajwid



Dec 30th, 2005 - 3:25 PM
Re: 4x4 / 4WD / SUV / OFFROAD POLAND

Oops sorry! I teach in a Private school mums have 4x4s and daddy has an S class.
Simon

Poland


Dec 30th, 2005 - 3:29 PM
Re: 4x4 / 4WD / SUV / OFFROAD POLAND

What do you drive or would you like to be driving, Dajwid?
Dave

York


Dec 30th, 2005 - 7:48 PM
Re: 4x4 / 4WD / SUV / OFFROAD POLAND

I confess I'm quite surprised to hear about Poles expensive driving four wheel drive cars in Poland. I thought everybody was driving around in those small Polish-built Fiats and old VW, Mercedes, BMW cars from Germany scrape / junk yards .

Even more suprising is that people have the money to drive Land Rovers and other similar expensive 4WD cars around for fun! Things are not as bleak in Poland as we sometimes imagine in England.
Dajwid



Dec 30th, 2005 - 8:47 PM
Re: 4x4 / 4WD / SUV / OFFROAD POLAND

I have:

Alfa romeo 155 for everday use

VW campervan for weekends

Fiat 126 I am totally rebuilding with all new parts.

What would I like to get?

1957 slit screen VW bus
A good Warsawa fast back.
Fiat 500
Old landy or Range for off roading


If you want to get me a present.
Aston DB9 Please British racing green.

What about you?
Klaus

Frankfurt, Germany


Dec 30th, 2005 - 10:49 PM
Re: 4x4 / 4WD / SUV / OFFROAD POLAND

Nice topic . I've just bought a new Range Rover Sport:-



I haven't even driven it across the Polish border, yet. Maybe I will on Sunday if I feel brave
Simon

Poland


Dec 31st, 2005 - 10:16 AM
Re: 4x4 / 4WD / SUV / OFFROAD POLAND

Land Rover Discovery

Renault Kangoo (business use)

VW Polo (reserve emergency car!). But I'm looking hard for a Landy Defender to replace this with.

Future car:

Klaus's Range Rover - brand new, same colour (in my dreams!!)

Klaus what do you do to have such a car!?! I'm very jealous
Simon

Poland


Dec 31st, 2005 - 10:23 AM
Re: 4x4 / 4WD / SUV / OFFROAD POLAND

I drove the 126 when I first came to Poland. A truely terrible car!!!!
Dajwid



Dec 31st, 2005 - 2:29 PM
Re: 4x4 / 4WD / SUV / OFFROAD POLAND

Fantastic car
Like a bloody go kart,great fun to drive. should never have been made street legal. Did you know there is a 126 club in the UK?
Klaus

Frankfurt, Germany


Dec 31st, 2005 - 8:41 PM
Re: 4x4 / 4WD / SUV / OFFROAD POLAND

How to have your own Range Rover Sport in three steps:

1- Work hard with your own company
2- Don't have children
3- Don't live in Poland and earn zloty!
Klaus

Frankfurt, Germany


Dec 31st, 2005 - 9:02 PM
Re: 4x4 / 4WD / SUV / OFFROAD POLAND

Are Fiat 126 the tiny, very slow cars driven by spotty teenagers in sportswear and old men with moustaches?
Hania



Jan 1st, 2006 - 12:43 AM
Re: 4x4 / 4WD / SUV / OFFROAD POLAND

Are Fiat 126 the tiny, very slow cars driven by spotty teenagers in sportswear and old men with moustaches?

Answer - yes .
dajwid



Jan 1st, 2006 - 8:36 AM
Re: 4x4 / 4WD / SUV / OFFROAD POLAND

Slow 126 slow!!! That depends on what engine you have fitted

German cars are really popular on poland. Golfs and polos old Mercs, Opels.
Over the last year cars on the road have improved as prices for used have dropped.
Cottbus Man

Cottbus


Jan 3rd, 2006 - 10:50 AM
Re: 4x4 / 4WD / SUV / OFFROAD POLAND

Do you think that German cars get vandalized more than Polish cars do in Poland? I've heard about German cars being stolen but not so much vandalism.
Marek

Poznań


Jan 4th, 2006 - 2:58 PM
Re: 4x4 / 4WD / SUV / OFFROAD POLAND

a new car with german registration plate will be scratched by Polish more often than car with polish plates. this is true.

i have noticed that more and more polish with money drive 4x4 cars.

i like toyota rav4
dajwid



Jan 4th, 2006 - 8:44 PM
Re: 4x4 / 4WD / SUV / OFFROAD POLAND

I live in the tricity there are now 4 porsche 4x4s all driven by women, yes there is money in Poland.
local 4x4 meets normaly have 50 plus cars, many are new cars.
Charles

UK


Jan 4th, 2006 - 11:33 PM
Re: 4x4 / 4WD / SUV / OFFROAD POLAND

I have just got a new black Nissan Pathfinder and last time I was in Poland, I was amazed that the price was about the same as in the UK. Was thinking of driving over next time but don't think I'll bother as I expect British cars will get the same treatment as the Germans?
Remus

Gdansk, Poland


Jan 4th, 2006 - 11:53 PM
Re: 4x4 / 4WD / SUV / OFFROAD POLAND

Hahaha
Range Rover Sport, Chrysler Cherokee, A BMW X5, Toyota rav4 are not real off-road vehicles. They are at the very most "semi off-road vehicles". These are limousines for reach middle-aged snobs who like to pretend brave young boys to impress sexy girls.
Real off-roader is cruel primitive ugly uncomfortable bull (except for Toyota Landcruiser which is a luxurious off-roader rather than a limo pretending to be off-road car)
Real off-roaders are Russian UAZ or Land Rover Defender.
Neil

Cork


Jan 5th, 2006 - 9:08 PM
Re: 4x4 / 4WD / SUV / OFFROAD POLAND

I think the cheapest ferry route would be Dover - Calais and then drive across Holland and Germany. But, best if you want a shorter drive would probably be to go to Hamburg by ferry from the UK. German roads are very good. I've never been to Poland, so I don't know about them. But from what I have read here your Land Rover will come in handy .
Michael

Nijmegen


Jan 6th, 2006 - 1:41 AM
Re: 4x4 / 4WD / SUV / OFFROAD POLAND

"I have just got a new black Nissan Pathfinder and last time I was in Poland, I was amazed that the price was about the same as in the UK. Was thinking of driving over next time but don't think I'll bother as I expect British cars will get the same treatment as the Germans? "

I think a car with UK registration plates will be as safe as one with Polish plates. I drive to Poland with my Dutch registered BMW X3 and have no problems. I think only German cars are likely to get the special treatment from certain elements of Polish society.
Len

Canada


Jan 6th, 2006 - 4:20 AM
Re: 4x4 / 4WD / SUV / OFFROAD POLAND

Any American SUVs on Polish roads?
monica

canada


Jan 6th, 2006 - 4:41 AM
Re: 4x4 / 4WD / SUV / OFFROAD POLAND

What do people do for living to afford an SUV in Poland ?
Dajwid



Jan 6th, 2006 - 6:27 PM
Re: 4x4 / 4WD / SUV / OFFROAD POLAND

Most of the people I know here have companies in Poland and have SUVs. There are a lot of rich poles here.
i must post a picture of the cars lined up outside my local private school, new BMWs Mercs, Jeeps, porsches. all Poles!
(I park my car round the corner)
Remus

Gdansk, Poland


Jan 6th, 2006 - 7:43 PM
Re: 4x4 / 4WD / SUV / OFFROAD POLAND

"new BMWs Mercs, Jeeps, porsches. all Poles!"

...and all stolen in Germany

(posted on behalf of Klaus)
Offroader

Inverness


Jan 11th, 2006 - 9:57 PM
Re: 4x4 / 4WD / SUV / OFFROAD POLAND

I would like to buy ex military Polish and Russian 4 4WD cars. Can anybody offer any suggestions as to where I can buy in Poland. Do the Polish army sell these cars off direct to the public?
dajwid



Jan 11th, 2006 - 10:46 PM
Re: 4x4 / 4WD / SUV / OFFROAD POLAND

Try
Allegro.pl It is a polish auction site like ebay. It is the most popular auction site in Poland always plenty of old Gaz and Uaz.
Hank

USA


Jan 14th, 2006 - 3:22 AM
Re: 4x4 / 4WD / SUV / OFFROAD POLAND

In answer to an earlier question in this converssation abour 4x4 in Poland - No, American cars are not popular in Poland. The Polish mostly drive old German cars. The rich ones new German cars. I don't think they have much imagination. Or maybe Polish people don't like or know much about cars.
dajwid



Jan 14th, 2006 - 1:24 PM
Re: 4x4 / 4WD / SUV / OFFROAD POLAND

I'm sorry I disagree, go to a few of the off road meets, go to a few tuning shows or club meets. There are clubs for most cars in Poland from 126p up. Now used cars are much cheaper here so there is more choice. I have and Alfa and I have found a lot of users here, very helpfull club, the same with my VW campervan.
OK not as many Aston martins as the UK but????
Jeff

Ireland


Jan 17th, 2006 - 8:03 PM
Re: 4x4 / 4WD / SUV / OFFROAD POLAND

What term is used in Poland by Poles to describe 4 wheel drive cars like Land Rover? 4x4, 4WD, SUV, AWD, ATV ... ...
Simon

Poland


Jan 17th, 2006 - 11:37 PM
Re: 4x4 / 4WD / SUV / OFFROAD POLAND

Of these: 4x4 is probably the most widely known and used. Lots of Poles use the Polish word - terenowy (all terrain vehicle)
Scott Free

Australia


Feb 24th, 2006 - 4:03 AM
Re: 4x4 / 4WD / SUV / OFFROAD POLAND

Hate to put a downer on this SUV love-in, but you guys do realise we're in the middle of an Oil Crisis. My solution "Draft SUV drivers first". in other words take your SUV and an assault rifle and go fight for your own oil. Alright i'll get off my high horse now
Simon

Poland


Feb 24th, 2006 - 6:49 PM
Re: 4x4 / 4WD / SUV / OFFROAD POLAND

Maybe a 4 x 4 vehicle is rather more thirsty than a standard car, and, therefore not particularly eco-friendly. But, in Poland, apart from the fun factor, a 4WD is very useful method of transport for navigating fairly normal Polish roads! Many roads, outside of places like Warsaw, are very uneven; full of potholes; covered with gravel and mud; cobblestoned; or little more than mud tracks. Here's a photo (taken yesterday) of one such Polish road, which leads to a village in Lubuskie I visit often:

Polish road to a village
Simon

Poland


Feb 24th, 2006 - 6:54 PM
Re: 4x4 / 4WD / SUV / OFFROAD POLAND

There are lots of good roads in Poland. And the EU are financing a lot of road building and highway improvements. But there are still a lot of roads in need of some improvement!
Hans

Berlin


Feb 24th, 2006 - 11:40 PM
Re: 4x4 / 4WD / SUV / OFFROAD POLAND

It's true - Polish roads can be a challenge .
Sarah

UK


Mar 3rd, 2006 - 9:50 PM
Re: 4x4 / 4WD / SUV / OFFROAD POLAND

I have to say I think a 4x4 is an ideal vehicle for Poland - its the only place I've been where I've seen a slip road running off the motorway which was cobbled
Simon

Poland


Mar 4th, 2006 - 11:49 PM
Re: 4x4 / 4WD / SUV / OFFROAD POLAND

The website allegro (a copy of the ebay idea) normally have a selection of second hand cars for sale. You might find a discovery there.

Otherwise there are 'auto komis' places all over Poland, which sell used cars. Where are you in Poland, Victor?
Mark



Mar 6th, 2006 - 9:06 AM
Re: 4x4 / 4WD / SUV / OFFROAD POLAND

Si - have you checked out the auto Komis in Desczno, on the left as you drive to Poznań?
Simon

Poland


Mar 6th, 2006 - 9:45 AM
Re: 4x4 / 4WD / SUV / OFFROAD POLAND

Yep, I noticed that they have three or four 4x4s for sale. I even stopped off and had a look a few days back. They have an ancient Mercedes G-Wagen; an old Range Rover; and a mid 1990s Discovery. None of them are in great condition, but, they are all fairly reasonably priced. I was going to suggest to Victor he check there but aren't sure where he is. Anyway, here's a link to their website: http://autoroch.pl/?dzial=oferta

There's also a used car place on the right hand side of the new 'express highway' towards Lubniewice. Lots of 4WDs but I don't have their contact details. I'll drop by sometime this week if I get time.

What are you driving now, Mark?

Do you know anything about buying a used car in Germany? Insurance, registration, import taxes, etc. Prices are a hell of a lot cheaper in Germany.
Mark



Mar 6th, 2006 - 10:22 AM
Re: 4x4 / 4WD / SUV / OFFROAD POLAND

I seem to remember seeing a few on the route to Zielona Góra, but can't exactly place them at the mo. I'll look into it on my next trip.

Not too au fait with the importing, although have several friends who have done so and are very satisfied.

I'm still driving my old Lanos, but from what I've heard, importing from the UK is the way forward. If you have a UK address, you can register it there and drive it here no problem. Then, if you do decide you want to register it here, you can get it adapted (change the dash, steering rack, lights, wipers etc.). Depending on the car, it would cost anything from 3K to over 10k with regard to whether you can get the parts from scrapped cars or if they have to be bought new. Personally, I'm looking at getting a 2003 MG ZT-T. Same price in the UK as the base Rover 75 over here.
Simon

Poland


Mar 6th, 2006 - 1:49 PM
Re: 4x4 / 4WD / SUV / OFFROAD POLAND

You're right buying a used car in the UK, especially a British one, seems on the surface to make a lot of sense. Huge selection of cars to choose from; far cheaper prices; and much easier haggling / negotiation. I looked at some Land Rover Series 3 and 110 Defender's while I was there a few weeks back but in the end gave up when the insurance thing started to seem complicated. Using an address in England is possible for me but the absence of a UK-based no claims discount and insurance history seemed problematic. And as you say registering and insuring a left hand car in Poland seems tricky and a mite expensive. I'm guessing you couldn't insure a UK registered car with Polish insurers like PZU?

More research is needed ...
Simon

Poland


Mar 6th, 2006 - 1:53 PM
Re: 4x4 / 4WD / SUV / OFFROAD POLAND

How reliable is your Lanos?

My next road car will most likely be the estate version of the Rover 75. If I can find a good one.
Mark



Mar 7th, 2006 - 8:46 AM
Re: 4x4 / 4WD / SUV / OFFROAD POLAND

Generally, I've been really pleased with it. No major breakdowns and just the usual wearables replaced.

I think you'll be lucky to find a nicely priced 75 estate in Poland. Lack of dealers back in the day, coupled with the bankrupcy has made them very rare indeed. Conversely, they are quite cheap for the same reason.
Mark



Mar 7th, 2006 - 8:48 AM
Re: 4x4 / 4WD / SUV / OFFROAD POLAND

this is the only one I could find on allegro:

http://www.otomoto.pl/index.php?sect=show&id=C929419
Magda

Poznań


Mar 7th, 2006 - 10:33 AM
Re: 4x4 / 4WD / SUV / OFFROAD POLAND

Coincidence: My dad has a Lanos and I like Rover 75 . Here is review of the most beautiful car in world:-

http://www.motoring.co.za/index.php?fSectionId=874&fArticleId=230154
Mark



Mar 7th, 2006 - 10:38 AM
Re: 4x4 / 4WD / SUV / OFFROAD POLAND

hmm - I wonder what else we have in common.....
Simon

Poland


Mar 8th, 2006 - 6:44 PM
Re: 4x4 / 4WD / SUV / OFFROAD POLAND

Here's a link to a place in the west of Poland specializing in used 4x4 cars:

http://www.autaterenowe.pl/carview.php
Simon

Poland


Mar 8th, 2006 - 6:50 PM
Re: 4x4 / 4WD / SUV / OFFROAD POLAND

Once you've bought your car you might want to join the already mentioned and rather fun:

International 4x4 Club Poland

or the more specialist:

Land Rover Club Polska

4wd fan

Glasgow


Mar 23rd, 2006 - 1:06 AM
Re: 4x4 / 4WD / SUV / OFFROAD POLAND

Do owners of cars have to pay road tax every year on cars they own in Poland? If so is it more expensive for large cars like 4wds?
Tomek



Mar 26th, 2006 - 3:16 PM
Re: 4x4 / 4WD / SUV / OFFROAD POLAND

There is no road tax for cars in Poland. Tax is added to cost of petrol, gas, and diesel.
Hans

Berlin


May 25th, 2006 - 10:54 AM
Re: 4x4 / 4WD / SUV / OFFROAD POLAND

I'd like the answer to the same question Norman asked here in December. Nobody has given an answer yet!


"Are you allowed to drive cars through the forest in Poland? When I was there last I saw lots of great dirt tracks but my Polish guide said for non forestry cars it was forbidden to use them. "
casper



May 25th, 2006 - 6:34 PM
Re: 4x4 / 4WD / SUV / OFFROAD POLAND

Does anyone know how import duties are levied on cars imported from Germany? We've been looking for a 4x4 in Germany because second hand they are much much cheaper than the UK. Ideal cars is Porsche 4x4 they rock second choice is the Infiniti (nissan). However, living in the real world I think we will plump for either a freelander or mabye if I can stretch the X5 both of which are very cool.
Reason for having a 4x4 so that if I have an accident the other fucker will end up dead not me.
CK



May 25th, 2006 - 6:39 PM
Re: 4x4 / 4WD / SUV / OFFROAD POLAND

"Reason for having a 4x4 so that if I have an accident the other fucker will end up dead not me"

Good reason . The roads are also perfect for 4wd's!

How about the new shape Land Rover Discovery. That one looks hot.
Sarah

UK


May 25th, 2006 - 8:05 PM
Re: 4x4 / 4WD / SUV / OFFROAD POLAND

We have a Nissan Pathfinder (new model) which I believe is effectively the same as the Infinity and I would certainly recommend it. Its a big beast but drives very much like a car and I use it for motorway driving for a lot of business travel and it also gets used in the mud on farms shooting and riding etc at weekends. Its got real offroad capabilities.

I suppose it depends on what you want it for but I agree that with Polands roads, snow in winter, driving standards etc, a big 4X4 is the way to go. We will likely sell before we leave and get a Navara double cab Pickup over there or from Germany and will certainly join Simons 4X4 club as it won't be too far from us.
claire

gdansk


May 26th, 2006 - 9:58 AM
Re: 4x4 / 4WD / SUV / OFFROAD POLAND

I'd like the answer to the same question Norman asked here in December. Nobody has given an answer yet!


"Are you allowed to drive cars through the forest in Poland? When I was there last I saw lots of great dirt tracks but my Polish guide said for non forestry cars it was forbidden to use them. "

No. You are not allowed.
My husband inquired within the last 12 months and that was his answer. He was looking to take a few shortcuts into town while the road to work was being ripped apart.

c
Tomek



Aug 22nd, 2006 - 8:44 PM
Re: 4x4 / 4WD / SUV / OFFROAD POLAND

But everyone drives through forest. It's funny .
Kazimierz Kowalski

Sydney


Aug 23rd, 2006 - 4:33 AM
Re: 4x4 / 4WD / SUV / OFFROAD POLAND

Hmm, I wonder why people aren't allowed to drive on these tracks.
Hans

Poland


Aug 23rd, 2006 - 11:17 AM
Re: 4x4 / 4WD / SUV / OFFROAD POLAND

Some forest tracks have no-entry signs, others have military area signs, most have nothing to say not to drive them. If there is no sign I drive along them .

There are also non-forest unsurfaced road all over the place.

Poland is a great place for offroad driving.
Elena

UK Brighton


Aug 23rd, 2006 - 7:35 PM
Re: 4x4 / 4WD / SUV / OFFROAD POLAND

errrr..ahem...but what about the dreadful fuel consumption and carbon emissions?

4X4s

Higher fuel consumption
higher carbon emissions
worse injuries
more deaths
greater illegal behaviour by drivers like: not wearing seatbelts and using mobiles while driving

not SUVs but FUV's
F*** U Vehicles
Bialonoz

Podlasie


Aug 23rd, 2006 - 8:22 PM
Re: 4x4 / 4WD / SUV / OFFROAD POLAND

They're a type of phallic extension for men who feel they are 'lacking something'.
Hans

Poland


Aug 23rd, 2006 - 11:43 PM
Re: 4x4 / 4WD / SUV / OFFROAD POLAND

No, that's not true .

The cars driven by those sort of men are those tacky American-style pick up trucks.
Dajwid



Aug 27th, 2006 - 8:21 AM
Re: 4x4 / 4WD / SUV / OFFROAD POLAND

Higher fuel consumption
higher carbon emissions
worse injuries
more deaths
greater illegal behaviour by drivers like: not wearing seatbelts and using mobiles while driving

not SUVs but FUV's
F*** U Vehicles

What a load of rubbish.
worse injuries:- They are safer than most tiny, tinny cars on the road.

more deaths:- Where, why, when, how?

greater illegal behaviour by drivers like: not wearing seatbelts and using mobiles while driving.
Where did you get this info from?

Do you actually know what a 4x4 is?
Have you ever been to an off road meet?
If you don't know what you are talking about why comment.
More deaths in Poland are caused by non 4x4s.
Every day I see people in non 4x4s driving like pratts and using phones.
There are drivers good and bad in all sorts of cars. If I buy a Merc I am OK the fact id can do 0-100 in 4.5 seconds is OK. If I buy a Gaz that does 0-100 in 25 second I am a maniac who wants to kill babies and cause chaos on the roads.
Strange that the same comments were made in th past about e type jags and Cobras now they are OK and off road cars suffer.

Before you ask, no I do not have a 4x4. I have a Volvo estate, VW campervan and a maluch. But will get a Hummer when I move to the UK and then race around Brighton all day talking on the Phone.
Gary



Aug 27th, 2006 - 10:57 AM
Re: 4x4 / 4WD / SUV / OFFROAD POLAND

4X4s

"Higher fuel consumption"

Than what? My 4x4 averages over 30 miles to the gallon in town. My friends BMW saloon does 20 if he is lucky!

"higher carbon emissions"

Same as above. Also mine has 7 seats rather than 2 in some sports cars (those are the penis extentions) with higher emmissions. My car gets used for shooting (before anyone gets politically correct its mostly clays, not that I care anyway!) and riding (etc) at weekends where two familes go in the one car rather than the two we would need otherwise. Therefore my emissions are actually lower.

"worse injuries"

Driving a large 4x4 saved a friend and his families lives when they were hit by a lorry (this was confirmed in the accident report) In a "normal" car he, his wife and two children would have been dead now. They escaped with just scratches.

"more deaths"

See above, significantly better all round visability helps prevent accidents.

"greater illegal behaviour by drivers like: not wearing seatbelts and using mobiles while driving"

What a load of lefty bo**ocks, wheres the proof on this?

Such sweeping statements without any factual justification. Oh and by the way I will be buying a 4x4 pickup when I move to Poland (not American), nothing to do with my penis which I am told is big enough, just practicality both domestic and business.
Elena



Aug 27th, 2006 - 11:45 AM
Re: 4x4 / 4WD / SUV / OFFROAD POLAND

No these are documented facts Gary. A reputable survey carried out in the UK and reported in the Independent was more conclusive than it expected to be about the increased illegal use of mobiles and the non use of seatbelts by 4x4 users.

The people in the 4x4s are safer but no-one-else is. If more people are travelling at one go then of course fuel consumption and associated carbon emissions but just like most cars they are often used by one person alone.

Of course the hi spec cars you mention are almost as bad as 4x4s but these statistics are based on the more average size cars.

In the light of current environmental crisis driving at all is highly questionable and is at the expense of others. Driving 4x4s is an obscenity. Of course 4x4s get better visibility, that's because EVERYBODY-ELSE loses theirs!

Of course the occupants of 4x4s are safer but when you compare equivalent accidents where 4x4s are involved with those with average vehicles. Accidents at similar speeds involve injury in 'average' cars but death in 4x4s. This is a basic fact of physics because a 4x4s are of course heavier (and that is why they consume more fuel and create higher carbon emissions) and therefore at the same speed they have greater momentum at the point of impact.

Gary you are probably a careful driver but the point is that accidents are accidents, they happen. Is your driving perfect, have you never had a loss of concentration? Any accident involving a 4x4 (or vehicle of equivalent weight) WILL generate proportionately MORE death or injury. This is a fact of physics and one you amply demonstrate by your accident report. Of course if we all consumed less, there would be fewer lorries on the road.

It's not that I'm not happy your 4x4 saved your lives but in the overall balance they are killing more than they save. Try talking to the guys in Greenland who can no longer carry out their centuries old livlihood because the ice is too thin or to the people in the islands which WILL diappear. This isn't about political correctness, this is about basic humanity and responsibility for our actions.

I'm sorry the facts are not welcome but they are the facts. How about considering a less damaging vehicle? You'll feel better! And for goodness sake don't wreck Poland, the one legacy of Communism and the dreadful economic impact is that it has a wonderful natural heritage which is largely although not totally spoiled. Haven't human beings ruined enough?

And since my fairly low emission car got smashed up in a stupid accident, I have been amazed by how wonderful it is not to have a car. My stress levels have dropped enormously, no worrying about pollution, money for petrol, for repairs, no worrying about parking, or speeding tickets or near misses. I can wholeheartedly recommend it.
Hans



Aug 27th, 2006 - 11:56 AM
Re: 4x4 / 4WD / SUV / OFFROAD POLAND

If you live in a city and never leave the area then you can probably do without a car. And yes people not owning cars is better for the environment. But for me I love the freedom a car brings. I also feel much safer as a driver in a large 4x4. Besides this I enjoy driving down tracks and unpathed roads, so I think I'll be keeping my 4x4.
Elena



Aug 27th, 2006 - 2:27 PM
Re: 4x4 / 4WD / SUV / OFFROAD POLAND

that of course is a matter for your conscience. I hire cars on an occasional basis and I LOVE the freedom of not worrying about it all even without the ethical element of things.
Hans



Aug 27th, 2006 - 2:52 PM
Re: 4x4 / 4WD / SUV / OFFROAD POLAND

I also feel that the Chinese, Americans, and increasingly Indians, pollute the planet without regard to anyone else, so my driving around Germany and Poland in a new 4x4 doesn't make a whole lot of difference.
Hans

Poland


Aug 27th, 2006 - 3:00 PM
Re: 4x4 / 4WD / SUV / OFFROAD POLAND

I added the 'new' in front of 4x4 not because I wanted to brag, but to illustrate the difference between the pollution a new car makes and an old one .
Elena

UK Brighton


Aug 27th, 2006 - 3:24 PM
Re: 4x4 / 4WD / SUV / OFFROAD POLAND

...and of course that's the view taken by all the individual americans, chinese and indians...and if we all take that view we are truly...ge-f***ed.

Even if it is too late, I am happier not contributing to it...but do drive carefully, not for yourself (although for that too) but in consideration of the greater impact of any driving arrors.


As the Quakers say "Wear it as long as you can!"

Swords in 16th Century, cars and certainly FUVs in the 21st.
slepowron



Aug 27th, 2006 - 7:30 PM
Re: 4x4 / 4WD / SUV / OFFROAD POLAND

“I also feel that the Chinese, Americans, and increasingly Indians, pollute the planet without regard to anyone else”

I can’t speak for the Chinese (and neither can they) nor the Indians but this “Americans polluting the world” is growing tiresome. The US mandated unleaded cars in 1975 and it was virtually impossible to find a station selling leaded fuel by 1985. By 1990 only 1% of US fuel sales were leaded compared to a 57% global average. (An average brought down by the low US numbers) The EU only prohibited leaded fuel sales in January of 2000 (with exemptions)

US Rivers are much less polluted that European rivers, I’d much rather take my chances swimming in Washington’s Potomac or Boston’s Charles than Paris’ Seine or Berlin’s Spree

The US established its cabinet ministry for environment in 1970 and Canada followed a year and a half later. Germany’s environmental ministry (1986) just celebrated its twentieth anniversary. In France and Britain the start of environmental ministries is more difficult to date as the title and portfolio was bounced and matched with other ministries for decades.

The US has much more to do with regards to the environment and has much to learn from others. However, the stereotype of the polluting American is more prejudice than fact.
Hans

Poland


Aug 27th, 2006 - 7:41 PM
Re: 4x4 / 4WD / SUV / OFFROAD POLAND

Here I was referring to pollution in the US caused by cars. US cars are incredibly gas thirsty and there are a lot of them.
Dajwid



Aug 28th, 2006 - 7:48 AM
Re: 4x4 / 4WD / SUV / OFFROAD POLAND

Oh come on! Enjoy yourselves! Nothing beats blasting around the forest in an old landy.
Worse things are happening in the world.
Get you Landy sport out and blast through Polands forests. There are fantastic tracks in most forests.
I had a VW Syncro 4x4VW Van. Fantastic fun.
recently I used a friends Quad, had a great few days in Kaszuby.
Good tracks, great mud and hills. Hardly saw a single person.

Churning up a bit of mud just lets the mushrooms grow better the next year. and keeps the ants busy.
Cezarek

Warszawa


Aug 28th, 2006 - 12:01 PM
Re: 4x4 / 4WD / SUV / OFFROAD POLAND

They're great fun, but it's worth remebering that bull bars (those tacky looking things they put on the front of 4x4s) are the difference between an injured pedestrian and a dead one.
Hans

Poland


Aug 28th, 2006 - 11:11 PM
Re: 4x4 / 4WD / SUV / OFFROAD POLAND

I plan to join the 4x4 club mentioned here, so if any forum members are also members we'll be meeting sometime soon .
Hans

Poland


Aug 28th, 2006 - 11:12 PM
Re: 4x4 / 4WD / SUV / OFFROAD POLAND

BTW - my off-road car doesn't have those funny bull bar things.
Gary

UK/Poland


Aug 28th, 2006 - 11:34 PM
Re: 4x4 / 4WD / SUV / OFFROAD POLAND

Sorry to dissapoint you Elena but I will be putting in my order for a new ozone destroying penis extention tomorrow. I will be buying this in Poland in addition to buying a farm, growing our own food, keeping our own animals, planting our own trees, employing Polish workers, and running a business there as well. Hopefully you are happy with me supporting the economy in this carbon negative way!

Will be joining the 4x4 club as well so maybe see you there Hans.
MikeC



Aug 29th, 2006 - 12:35 AM
Re: 4x4 / 4WD / SUV / OFFROAD POLAND

I used to take my H2 mudding by the Ga/Fla line. great stuff. got rid of it when gas hit $3.

Funny I see more H2's now when Im in Poland that in the US
Kazimierz Kowalski

Sydney


Aug 29th, 2006 - 5:07 AM
Re: 4x4 / 4WD / SUV / OFFROAD POLAND

I'm guessin' all you 4x4 enthusiasts fart in the general direction of any theories re peak oil?
Hans

Berlin


Aug 29th, 2006 - 10:50 AM
Re: 4x4 / 4WD / SUV / OFFROAD POLAND

Yes, I hope to see you there, Gary. It seems that a few of their more active members have left Poland, so the Polish off-road club are looking for new blood.

 

 

 

 

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